It’s Been Revoked

Posted: June 10, 2015 in Eve Online
Tags: , , , , , , ,

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Yes, we all knew that gif was coming when DIP was on its way out. So what happened? I mean reddit has had tons of theories of why we failed. However, at the end of the day I was leading DIP. If DIP failed, blame hits the leadership, not excuses. Nor did we get killed off by TEST (who really didn’t interfere with DIP for most part excluding helping PFR), nor did PFR end us, nor did RA backstab us, or anything like that.

So what went wrong?

Accelerated timetables, quantity over quality at times, too much Kasken knows best, lack of patience, and frustration causing RAWR moments. Combine that with a lack of actual Eve gameplay aside from Skype, things went south. DIP was not in an entirely  un-salvageable spot either. We basically agreed that it was better to let it go peacefully than carry on trucking.

Prologue

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DIP was created, months ahead of the original plan. Actually, per our initial time tables, Vitri would be about to leave FW and looking towards null sec currently. Instead we are in a cascading alliance leaving. I wanted DIP to be different, something unlike the standard null sec alliances. Obviously I wanted DIP to be good, in general people don’t like losing. I wanted a more mature crowd, as the local spam and trash talking annoys me.

I chose to create all this, and run, with zero resources, a handful of guys i recruited who proved invaluable, and plunged forward. I knew it would be difficult, and dear god was it.

I had gotten used to flying with the big boys in Eve, overall. I can fly anything, and had to step down to flying cheaper things, with pilots who didn’t know what anchoring meant. I struggled with that. I am not the msot brilliant FC out there, and I am not used to running 200 man fleets. However, I can, in my opinion anyway, solidly handle 70ish and below sized fleets. It was awkward when I zoomed out and realized half my fleet didn’t anchor correctly, have prop mods on, or have in general a clue what was going on. Even simple things like Kestrel fleets, my missiles could hit 81k out, half my guys were like 40k. The struggle was real.

That was partially my hangup, I guess the bittervet side of me started hating training newbros. It’s weird because I hate people who bash on new guys for being new, but at the same time I didn’t want to be the guy that required training them. I couldn’t just go super elite in my recruiting either, as no one had heard of us, and recruiting top quality talent into an unknown nobody is rough to achieve. I’ve been around forever, I’ve eve FCed skirmish stuff for many bigger alliances. I however typically remained quiet, didn’t thrust myself into the limelight and didn’t have tons of contacts everywhere to reach out and yank people in.

Chapter 1 – Rolled Out

98303242_128We moved from FW to Stain, to Detorid, to a different home in Detorid within a span of two months I believe it was. That put tons of stress on our pilots, and then we picked up our first, what I like to call, “Breakthrough Corp.” Rolled Out, currently in Triumvirate joined us. They were one of the few contacts I had, as i knew most of their leadership pilots from Nulli + Black Legion. AgentFiftySix and Ama Atavuli were two of my favorite pilots to fly with in Eve, and them joining gave us a huge boost. I had very good FCs, guys I liked, and a boost in fame as Rolled Out was not an unknown nobody corp.

I mishandled them being there. I had doubt issues, as I personally felt they were working for Rolled Out to achieve goals, and not towards alliance goals. Combining that with, what can only be described as this picture with one of their members, there was severe trust and antagonism building. It ended with Rollo leaving and heading towards their old home. From that point forward, I basically sat there like an idiot glaring at them whenever anything went wrong I blamed Rollo. When they started attacking us, I knew it was because “they were out to get me”.  When Tri told us not to attack The Spire and wanted to reset u son the spot to kill our cap fleet it was because of Rollo…although in that case I was specifically told they were trying to convince Garst to reset us to gank our caps at that moment.

Looking back a bit more objectively, and I’m obviously still biased by my own experiences, I seriously mishandled that entire situation. I lost some good friends because of it. I still don’t think my concerns were entirely unfounded, but I blew them up beyond what they should have been. The entire situation was, well, my fault. Ama / Agent, I’m sorry bros. I screwed up, and I’m glad to see Rollo is fully thriving again in Tri. As to the other unnamed car I collided with… you and I will probably never go out to drinks and chill, but my reactions towards you were at least partially undeserved.

Chapter 2 – The Red Menace

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At this point, with DIP struggling to stay afloat, the remaining corps, Pandemic Lizards & Elysian opted to take a deal with Greg2010 and move into Insmother. It gave us halfway decent sec systems, a place to call home, and a fresh start. We began recruiting, building up DIP and things were progressing decently. With the anticipation of Fozzie SOV hitting, and DIP needing moons, we attacked Spire. Garst basically said down little bug, I will crush you because Kira from DRF is telling me things about how evil RA is. No, all those moons are mine, because I am nearby. I detested this attitude. That style of holier than thou pisses me off because it is exactly why Eve belongs to giant groups of dickheads instead of the way it used to be.

We pulled back expansion plans for Spire and ended up taking pretty much Southeast Insmother. The goal was lots of SOV will give us expansion and recruiting plans. Red Alliance supported us doing so, and when the times permitted it dropped supers to help my Yolo Moros grinding. I know Red Alliance has a rough reputation from the past, but in my four months or so dealing with Greg2010, they are good people now. They went above and beyond, and way out of their way to help out a new struggling alliance. To be perfectly honest, it was nicer and better than most of the alliances who trash on them are / were doing.

It was during this time, we recruited some ex-ex-Kadeshi corps in. Yes the double ex is on purpose there.

Chapter 3 – Mini D3

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Sonic Jihad joined as a reformation of a Kadeshi corp (Soul Snatchers) that left specifically to join us. A period of time after the joined, we also picked  up Synapse, another ex-Kadeshi corporation. Things got awkward rapidly here.

First, Omar is an amazing FC. He plans, sets up, and is quite thorough in his preparation for fights. He can and does typically win his fights and has a blast doing so. Mad props for his ability. The flip side is, he has the N3 style mentality. Rageping, quadruple max CTA, space-aids, and a mildly intolerant attitude towards non-pvp during pvp time. I screwed up here and let him run with it. Rather than reign him in, I allowed Omar to run wild and do what he thought needed to be done as military director. It led to friction with other CEOs in the alliance, but most especially with Synapse.

Now, the problem is I agreed with most of what Omar was saying. And this is what helped put us squarely on the path to behaving as an N3 coalition group (and cascading appropriately). Omar’s mentality was very much that of N3 style, and his corpmates were very similar mindsets. He also has someone who I shall refer to as the drama queen that started an epic ruckus which helped propel the downfall…explained below.

Synapse, when negotiations were started, were highly recommended, ironically from Omar. I spoke with Abinus a great deal before them joining. My expectations, per Abinus were 15-20+ guys in fleets nightly. A full blown PvP corp that also had dudes who did industry and some ratting. Their killboards were extremely solid, and Abinus sounded like he knew his stuff.

After arriving, what I ended up having was a group of Synapse who loved to mine, and lost tons of mining ships to the same group from Tri frequently. I couldn’t get anywhere near those numbers in fleets, and if it wasn’t during a four hour block between 0100-0500 ET I was not supposed to expect any of Syyn to be in a fleet. My frustration level and irritation level shot through the roof. Fleets were whelped, which happens I know. However, there was no taking ownership, it was all someone else’s fault on why it happened,  not the FC who happened to be from Synapse as well.

They also had a station, per DIP all stations, and SOV belong to the holding corp. In order to drop said station, they would not abide by the guidelines unless we paid equal shares of the station. We ended up doing this, and it cost me personally 12 billion isk, Omar paid 6 billion isk, and Synapse paid 6 billion. That station lead to billions in carebear losses on the killboard. I am not sure why I got so fussed with the killboards, so I reacted… badly… to seeing mining barges, carriers, and other insanely stupid losses frequently on there. This led to the ultimatum from Sonic Jihad.

downloadThe ultimatum came from Sonic Jihad was a boycott. They would stop doing any and all work for the alliance as spearheaded by said drama queen. Real life would take priority, IE watching tv instead of helping with PvP unless we basically evicted Synapse.

This lead to me trying to figure out, do I kill my US TZ, or my EU TZ. I mean, the choice was literally which TZ do I want to completely rape and destroy. I wa sbeyond furious, as this special person basically rages and has tantrums about anything not going his way. Ultimately, after conversing with Synapse, they opted to leave along with Elysian Ascent. This lead to the Wyvern fun.

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Synapse had a super building in O-9 when they decided to leave. I was trying to be a nice guy and letting it build so they could evac. However, knowing they were going to GClub (basically becoming new pets of them) Greg and I thought sending them off with a new super is a bad idea to “The Enemy”. I coul dhave kicked from alliance, and thus aborted their super to be an epic douche. Believe me, it was indeed tempting. However I was trying to work on my character flaws instead. When we told Abinus we will buy it, rather than let it leave, he first lied about when it came out. Then pretended the builder was on vacation who mysteriously came back mid conversation. We knew it was pretty much going to be ninjaed out. However, we opted to try and believe them, rather than be dicks and see if Abinus word was any good. As predicted (and they were super smug like they pulled a fast one we never saw coming after) they got the Wyvern out. I’m not sure if they understood how close I came to killing that. Damn my turning over a new leaf.

This whole drama batch had DIP fairly shaky, teetering on the edge. Finally, the Thrakkar incident occurred which helped give the final push. Well, a combination of the Thrakkar incident and my dislike of where DIP was and what we had become.

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                                Chapter 4 – Errik Thrakkar

First, Errik Thrakkar and his legion of alts, have made the entire journey that was Vitri + DIP possible. He built and ran our IT services. Setup and coordinated logistics. Recruited,m interviewed, performed background checks. Any and everything that is involved in building a corporation, alliance, or moon empire he either ran, or guided, typically doing most of the work himself.  Not to sound like I have a man crush or anything, but the guy is also quite smart, albeit a drastically different approach than myself.

Salt-Pile

Thrakkar is also a salty (enough that he could dry up the dead sea if he went swimming in it) military vet, who excels in big picture planning. He advised and counseled me on pretty much any and every decision that was made over the last 5 months of VItri / DIP being in existence. I, in the wrong arrogant fashion, ignored most of said advice. I believed I knew what I was doing, that I was right, and ignored 97% of advice  handed to me.

I think the PFR war and ensuing reddit war is what finally drove all this over the edge. I basically got pissed at PFR for being annoying on reddit, and downvoting everything I ever stated. Rather than act like a mature adult, I was like, TO WAR! Thrakkar warned me it could involve TEST intervention, which I also ignored and plunged forward. Did we wreck them, overall yea. Sorry PFR bros, but we won almost every fight we had, and without TEST you guys were slaughtered in general. Am I upset about that whole war…god no. It provided epic content and good times.

Combine this, with all the drama above, and I had a second in command of the alliance who did insane amounts of work, and was largely ignored by the all knowing Executor. He continued getting more and more frustrated, and began looking for a new home. Once this became, somewhat public, Omar told us that if one or the other leaves the alliance, his corp is gone. The thing is, Thrakkar wasn’t even wrong. I kept plunging forward, not fixing the issues we had, and knowing what was right even if it proved the contrary. I rationalized every mistake I made, and continued. Regardless of anything else that happened or will happen as a result of DIP / Vitri, my choices and action regarding Thrakkar… is the worst mistakes I’ve made. Even now, after leaving Vitri to actually have fun playing Eve again, the guy is moving out Vitri from Insmother, and making an epic difference. Thrakkar, I am so sorry for the dogpoo way I treated you. I basically took everything you were doing in game and out of it for granted, and quite frankly was a complete “fucktard” about it. That might come across as a little man lovesick, but it’s more of a bro apology.

Chapter 5 – The Knock Out

knockout-clipart-stock-vector-knock-out-93868531So combine all of this, and then Sonic Jihad gets informed I was unhappy with DIP and wanted to leave Insmother. Once again, Captain Drama Queen went berserk, and pulled all his support for SJ, including assets and decided DIIP is terrible and they need to get out.

Yes I was unhappy with DIP’s state. We had become what I didn’t want us to be. We were no different than any other nullsec alliance. We had drama, ragepings, mocking of newer pilots. We had CTAs, a coalition, and little brother status. I performed reddit wars, super secret meetings, and I did not like where we were at. We had strayed far from my original concepts of what I wanted DIP to end up as.

Combine that drama bomb again, with Thrakkar being directly asked if he was leaving. He said yes. Poof, Sonic Jihad was pulling up and leaving, and Pandemic Lizards were merging to go with them. So technically DIP wasn’t all the way dead. Most of our allies urged me strongly to stay and rebuild. They said you have the SOV, and ability to do it. But it came down to, I didn’t want to anymore. I am tired of rebuilding an alliance, DIP is not where I want it to be. I don’t have the energy to rebuild it from the ground up. I literally, dreaded logging into Eve. As in, it was a job I was beginning to hate going to. When a game you play to relax irritates you to the point where you dislike it… that’s a bad sign. So on TS3, with everyone leaving, we agreed to call it quits.

downloadWhere do we go from here? My corp is not dead, far from it. Will we lose people, naturally. I have one of the best core group of guys in a corporation I have seen in a long time. The overall foundation from my corp is not changing, nor will it. They are all committed. We will purge some inactives, and some people will drift off naturally. However as a corp, we are looking at where we want to go.

We have been spammed with offers and the like of course. I’m not sure where I want to go but it will involve the following:

– Fun…not rageping get tf in fleet now or the world ends, but fun PvP.
– Some sort of nullsec style, roaming at a minimum.
– I get to FC, I am not going to go through a training program but some 2 year Eve vet who thinks he knows everything
– Logistics that don’t involve us running 30+ towers for moon goo
– No drama preferred
– Willing to take a corp where not everyone can fly T3 doctrines or afford to
– Mature group, not spamming local with dick pics and acting like retarded monkeys
– Does not use the word “Dank”

This is of course will be a corp decision. There are a few choices that if Vitri wants to go there, Kasken will indeed not go with them. There are certain entities and styles in Eve that I am choosing at this point to stay away from. However Vitri wants to go, Vitri can indeed go.

Conclusion

download (1)At the end of the day, DIP failed as a result of me. Not because I am a terrible leader, but because I made mistakes, dabbled in too many pies, and did not listen when I should have. I made some poor choices and failed to see the consequences those choices would have. Perhaps if I hadn’t driven Rolled Out… err out.. of DIP things would be different. Or if I had left us in high sec longer, or researched Synapse better.

At the end of the day, I screwed up. I learned a ton. Leadership, at least alliance executor needs a hands off approach (something Thrakkar has been arguing for me to do). I kept stepping down and sticking my hands into everyone’s cookie jars. Major mistake. I didn’t delegate enough early enough and got saddled with too many jobs. I overworked the dudes who were doing jobs as it was. Mistakes were made. Lessons were learned. DIP was a  great experience. In four months, we owned 19 systems, and made an impression. I don’t regret the experience, just my choices along it.

To everyone that flew with DIP, IE allies, friends, members… thank you. I wasn’t the easiest to deal with all the time. I could be a complete dick. You guys are the reason DIP lasted while it did. Thank you a ton for bearing with it, and thanks for all the fish.

To everyone who flew against DIP… thank you. We had some epic brawls, they don’t always mean much to all of Eve, but some of those fights made impressions. PFR especially, you guys have given us some tremendous fights that will last in my memories for a while. Thanks for providing content, the annoying ganks, and the exciting brawls we had.

Vitri… you guys are amazing, and I can’t wait to see where we go next together (or not depending on the choices I suppose)

As a final note, I will in fact remain The Lobster King, The High Klaw, and Vitri will continue it’s lobster themed paradise.

So Long and Thanks for All the Fish

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Comments
  1. moi says:

    What a shame, I thought you were doing so well too. Good luck in your next endeavour, whatever that may be.

  2. Stain fans says:

    “At the end of the day, DIP failed as a result of me. Not because I am a terrible leader, but because I made mistakes, dabbled in too many pies, and did not listen when I should have.”

    Bro, you cant say you are not a terrible leader and then proceed to explain all the reasons you are a terrible leader. Your problem is you cant be objective and honest with yourself and have no foresight, and only realize you have created a disaster when its right in your face. Leaders have vision and foresight, and use their foresight and understanding to lead them to their vision.
    While you might be honest with yourself in hind sight, that’s called being a historian not a leader.
    Throwing my 2 cents in.

    • Kasken says:

      I explained mistakes that were made. I made mistakes, I screwed up. It happens, part of life is learning from them. I didn’t go through this putting out every victory or accomplishment I had either. It wasn’t like DIP was a complete series of failures the entire time. I highlighted the key mistakes that were made which led to its downfall. If I truly was a terrible leader, I would not have as my people requesting we stay here as I do, and as many people encouraging me to rebuild. Nor would my own guys be cool with staying in Vitri.

      • Marr21608 says:

        Kasken,
        I drug my own corporation through hell three years ago when I first moved to Null sec. I saw several awesome guys burn out and quit the game because I required too much. When the casual gameplay that we were used to was gone I lost some good friends.
        Two more times I did this with different alliances in Null sec and both times it changed me. This time around I knew that I had to take my alliance into the heart of hell to find the guys with the heart it takes to do what we want to do and build something in EVE.
        I dont know if this was your first go, but if it was I think you had a hell of a first go at this man. I do not think that we have seen the last of Kasken.

  3. Agatir Solenth says:

    Errik Thakker becomes the backbone of any organization he flies with. I have flown and worked with him in previous corps/alliances. I’ve had the pleasure of sharing a beer with him in RL. Hope he lands where he’ll be appreciated for his talents, skills, and commitment.

    • Kasken says:

      I had a beer with him in real life… while he cooked steaks on the grill 🙂

      Yes, he’s a solid dude, and we are still friends. I think with this over both of us are significantly more relaxed in all honesty.

  4. Exdios says:

    Its a pity DIP has fallen, it was an Alliance I enjoyed reading about and following, even if at the time I was in the enemy camp 😛 (Gclub)

    As with everything in Eve we all move on to different things in this game, I myself moved on, finding Gclub not my kettle of fish.

    I wish you all the best for the future mate, and will continue to follow your endeavours no matter what you get involved with.

  5. Fugue Crow says:

    I think if you turn down your hateboner for Test, you’d enjoy it here. I’ve generally liked you, your FC experience would be immediately recognized (and we need more of those) and no, we don’t do rageping CTAs.

    Yes, we love our local spam and our silly memes. Do you think we take it seriously? No, that’s part of what makes us a fun alliance: our lack of seriousness. Most of us are actually older, mature players that have settled into something more casual than Pandemic Legion.

    I strongly urge you to at least talk to diplos, or talk to me, and think about joining TEST. We’re not trying to be a blue donut in Wicked Creek. We’re nowhere near that big, and we love to fight.

    If you don’t, I hope whoever you end up with comes out to WC knowing that there’s a big power vacuum north of us with FozzieSov, so we can fight you guys again.

    • Kasken says:

      I dislike the immature attitude is mostly it. Not being serious, that part is cool. The overall blast of local and the like… not my style. That’s just me personally, if my corp really wanted to go there… they can. I would hand over CEO and let them go. It’s probably the sense of humor I don’t agree with. I’m unusual… for example, I don’t find most Will Ferell movies that fun (excluding Night at the Roxbury).

      • Mino Noud says:

        I’ve never quite understood that when people say that TEST is immature. I mean, sure, there are many inappropriate jokes and trolling, but that should be celebrated and taken with a pinch of salt. I find them refreshing as a group as they don’t treat everything as serious as cancer, and as such make the game enjoyable. I’m not going to give you an offer for SOCKS, as I feel your style would greatly clash with my own and it wouldn’t be good for either of us, but do give TEST a go. You’d likely be able to breathe and just enjoy the game as opposed to get bitter and upset when things aren’t quite going as you planned.

        I’d introduce myself on their comms anyway. You find me shittalking there in the evening as being an executor I stay more hands off and delegate. It’s what is making us so successful as a community and drama is at a minimum. That’s how it will remain and I would have booted ANYONE causing drama that could affect unity regardless of how important I thought they were. No one person in a group is worth keeping around if they spoil all of the other apples in the barrel. Wherever you do go, I hope you manage to enjoy the game again,

  6. infidel6 says:

    Kasken,

    Wish you the best in your new adventures.

    -Synthec

  7. Dorian Reu says:

    You’re only a poor leader if you do not learn from your mistakes and/or blame others. You obviously didn’t blame anyone else so just make sure you learn from these mistakes.

    Now, put your shoulder down and keep moving.

  8. General Arath says:

  9. […] to meeting more of you as you guys get moved out into Null with the rest of the alliance. Now that our allies in Diplomatic Immunity have disbanded, growth for IOC is more important than […]

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